Room Conversation February 12, 1972, Madras Light Conversation with an aged Guest Devotee: Where you are sitting? Guest: I am sitting here so that I might give my right ear to you all. I haven't seen you before. Çyämasundara: I'm Çyämasundara. Guest: (indistinct) Prabhupäda: Yes, it is your seat. Guest: Very good, very nice seat. Prabhupäda: You can take it, this seat. Guest: The camera should have operated on your beautiful säré. It's very good. Who is the chief of your group? You or he? Prabhupäda: (laughter) As you like. Guest: He holds a big stick, so I'm asking. Madhudviña: Prabhupäda is the chief. He has given me the stick. Guest: Where is my Negro friend? He has not come? Prabhupäda: Oh, he has not come. There was no place in the car. There were many Negroes. Guest: (aside:) Sit closer. You belong to this place? No. What place you belong to? (Hindi with other guest) It's a pretty long stick. Let me have a look at it first. It's wrapped in cloth. Oh, I see. Madhudviña: It is four bamboos. Guest: Huh? Madhudviña: It is called tri-daëòi, tridaëòi. Guest: Tridaëòa. Madhudviña: Yes. Guest: Tridaëòa. Prabhupäda: This is Vaiñëava. Guest: Are there three sticks in it? Madhudviña: No, there are three pieces-one, two, three. There are four sticks wrapped here. Guest: You have taken sannyäsa? Madhudviña: Our Guru Maha..., Prabhupäda has given me sannyäsa. Guest: Sannyäsa. Madhudviña: Yes. Guest: Then only you can hold it? Madhudviña: Yes. Prabhupäda: Yes, yes. Sit down, sit down. Guest: I will make the camera come after you(?) (laughter) Can you take a photograph? Devotee: Huh? Guest: Photo? No, you can't. Guest (2): I can't, no. (indistinct). Guest: Very well. I was told you were seventy-six. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: You don't look like that. I think that's not correct age. Surely you are fifty-six. (laughter) How many of you here...? How many are you here...? Will you sit nearer here? Devotee: I... This is your good ear? Guest: Yes. This is my good ear. Yes. Giriräja: I'll sit on the white bench. Prabhupäda: Then you can sit on... Guest: How many are you here in Madras? Giriräja: About fifteen are here in Madras now. Guest: Fifteen or fifty? Giriräja: Fifteen. Prabhupäda: One-five. Guest: One-five. Devotee: Yes. Guest: How many are women and how many are men? Giriräja: Two women and one child woman. Guest: Three? The rest are boys? Young men. Giriräja: Yes. Guest: From seventy-six downward. (laughter) Giriräja: Yes. Guest: You belong to West Bengal? Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: Or East Bengal? Prabhupäda: My birthplace is in Calcutta. Guest: Calcutta. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: Great and famous place. Looked after... Prabhupäda: Where you are governor also. Guest: Looked after very badly. (laughter) Prabhupäda: Lalaji was governor in West Bengal. Guest: How you have... Yes. I was called governor for some time there. I liked the place when I was there. They were all very kind. They had settled down after a lot of rioting and, and (indistinct), and all that, they had settled down. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: They were all very good to me. They looked upon me as a, an impartial man, which is a very great compliment in our country. Now you have undertaken a very great task. I am not competent to discuss or comment upon it. Prabhupäda: No. I think you are the best man to comment upon it. Guest: True. Still, I am not presumptuous enough to comment on one who has actually taken up the work. That is the difference between thinking and doing. Thinking is easy. Doing requires inspiration, and you have taken it up. Prabhupäda: I was thinking of taking up this task long, long ago. I wrote one letter to Mahatma Gandhi that "You have got influence all over the world, and you are acknowledged a man of spiritual understanding. Now you have got svaräö, you better retire and take up this preaching of Bhagavad-gétä all over the world." Guest: He was doing if from the beginning, not exclusively that, but applying the Bhagavad-gétä to everything that he was doing. He was doing it really, but you are referring to concentrated, exclusive... Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: ...teaching of the doctrines and way life described in... Prabhupäda: Sometimes I requested Dr. Radhakrishnan also... Guest: Huh? Prabhupäda: ...when he was vice-president. Guest: Radhakrishnan? Nowhere in comparison with Gandhi. Prabhupäda: No. Guest: Radhakrishnan, highly intellectual, good man, but he was more of a... There was no inspiration he gave. Prabhupäda: No, no. Guest: God seems to have decided to spare him from that, from hard work. Prabhupäda: Yes. (laughter) Guest: He was very happy, and he was very good and I love..., I have great love for him, and he was a very just man. He was a teacher of... Prabhupäda: In Calcutta he was a professor... Guest: ...politics, not of the Bhagavad-gétä. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: Now, would you allow me to think aloud... Prabhupäda: Oh, yes. Guest: ...in the matter you have taken up? Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: First of all, they are scattered all over the world, your society. Scattered all over the world. They do not live together, anywhere. Prabhupäda: No. I have got different centers. Guest: You have. Prabhupäda: Yes. In different cities. Guest: And they live together there? Prabhupäda: Oh, yes. We have got devotees in each center, not less than twenty-five and up to two hundred. Guest: I see. Oh, as big as that. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: Now, taking up my thoughts on the crude difficulties of management. First of all there is the very crude necessity of getting money to run these institutions. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: And that means... Prabhupäda: I may inform you, in this connection... Guest: Huh? Prabhupäda: ...that we are spending at the present moment seventy to eighty thousand dollars per month. Guest: That's right. So whatever the exact amount may be, it's likely to be a big amount, and that means befriending people who will be prepared to part with the money... Prabhupäda: Hard-earned money. Guest: ...the money that they worship. Eh? (laughter) Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: Money god is greater than Brahma and Çiva and Viñëu, just about, unfortunately. The people have made an idol of gold and silver and letter of paper, paper making the promises of government... Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: ...which are never kept. (laughter) Prabhupäda: I was going to say, it is a fraud. Guest: Fraud. Prabhupäda: Mäyä. Guest: But that is... Prabhupäda: It is mäyä. I give you piece of paper and you think on thousand rupees. This is mäyä. Guest: Yes. You see it depends on the credit to the man who gives the promise. Paper is mainly the document of credit. Governments have till now kept their credit, but now they have learned to disregard their promises also. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: So that is one of the main troubles. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: But I think any religious movement like yours, people think they can buy up the grace of God by giving some money. Right? So you won't find any difficulty in getting money, because there is air of sin in the world, and the sinful people think they can compromise by giving money. Let them give. Prabhupäda: That is also good. Guest: Let them give. That..., but that is the smallest point. Another point is, I suppose in each institution, in each center, there are men as well as woman... Prabhupäda: Oh, yes. Guest: And they live together. Prabhupäda: Not together. Woman's section is different. Guest: Huh? Prabhupäda: Women's section is different. Guest: Different. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: It's very important... Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: ...because all religious organizations have floundered on scandal, and you will have to be very careful about that. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: This is what an old man has a right to tell you. Prabhupäda: Yes. No, from the very beginning, because in Western country the boys and girls, they intermingle very freely. Guest: Oh, yes, we know all that. Prabhupäda: Yes... Guest: We know for a fact. Prabhupäda: ...and therefore I, as far as possible, I get them married. Guest: Yes. But that doesn't prevent permissive culture. It acts as a sort of guarantee (Prabhupäda laughs), as a sort of insurance against scandal. But scandals do come out. Prabhupäda: Yes, and that is a... Guest: So you are left with, that is another crude problem... Prabhupäda: Oh, yes. Guest: ...that you have to take great care about. The traditional life of separate living is safer for organization. So all right to have men and are married and then in family they can mix. There is no difficulty. But when you start the separate organization, against which people are ready to manufacture stories, then you will have to be much more careful. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: So that is one comment I make as an old man. Prabhupäda: Oh, yes. You are very valuable. Yes. Guest: That is a wise thing from an old man. That's one thing. Then these are minor matters. On the philosophy of action which you have taken... Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: ...of converting the people to Sri Kåñëa... Prabhupäda: Consciousness. Guest: ...to worship of Sri Kåñëa... Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: ...I wonder whether you will place more importance, I ask my friend, Mr.,...uh... Prabhupäda: Giriräja. Guest: ...Giriräja, whether it is the Gétä that you may stress on or the Bhägavatam. Prabhupäda: Gétä is the preliminary study of Bhägavatam. Guest: True, but in Bhägavatam there is lots of danger, so far as Sri Kåñëa goes. The Bhägavatam, so far as it relates to the other incarnations of Mahä-Viñëu Himself, different, but so far as Sri Kåñëa goes, it deals with a chapter of His life which can mislead people... Prabhupäda: Yes. That we are very cautious. Guest: Huh? Prabhupäda: That we are very cautious. Guest: You will have to be very cautious. Prabhupäda: Yes. I was discussing this point... Guest: Generally, generally people begin to think, "I am Sri Kåñëa..." Prabhupäda: Ah, that is nonsense. Guest: "...God.'' That is what happens. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: That will be danger. But so far as the Gétä Äcärya's teachings, He is a different person. There's no reference to early life in Vyäsa's Bhagavad-gétä. The Bhagavad-gétä is simply about an äcärya. Occasionally He says "I am Éçvara," but He's an äcärya primarily. I need not..., I am not trying to sermonize to you. I'm trying to explain what I feel. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: Very difficult doctrine of detachment. The Gétä Äcärya says sannyäsa is difficult, and you are likely to become a hypocrite if you, if you... Prabhupäda: Mithyäcäraù sa ucyate. Guest: ...if you prematurely take sannyäsa. Therefore try and compromise the principles of sannyäsa, that is to say of renunciation with worldly action, and, I mean, performance of duty, by performing the duties without caring for the results. That is the renunciation He has preached, I have understood. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: The defects are here that way which you will confirm, I have no doubt. But the question which I put to Giriräja was whether it would not have been better if you work from inside rather than make yourself a separate cult and organization. Separate organization, once you form, becomes like a person who is born. It gets his attachment, his ego, his everything. So the separate organization, like Mr. Banu, becomes an ego. He is fond of his own attachments, of his own interest, and so the organization must be looked after. The organization should succeed. The organization should succeed better than other organizations. There is (indistinct) among organizations. So all the egotistic weaknesses apply to organizations also. Therefore I was wondering whether it would not, if you had convinced that your mission was to spread the Gétä Äcärya's teachings as to how to act with detachment and with faith in the grace of God, where you go wrong, could not be having better done without making yourself separate. Prabhupäda: No. The thing is, when there is detachment, there must be another attachment. Guest: Yes. To God. Prabhupäda: Yes. But that is required. Guest: Huh? Prabhupäda: That is required. Just like... Guest: Yes. Attachment to... There is a Tamil, Kural. You have heard of the name Kural? Tamil (indistinct), makes this point very clear. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: If you wish to live without detachment, attach yourself to God. Prabhupäda: Yes. Guest: That will be the... Prabhupäda: Paraà dåñövä nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. Guest: Yes. Prabhupäda: After getting good attachment, one gives up the inferior attachment. Guest: Right. That will better right. The attachment should be to God. Prabhupäda: Kåñëa. Guest: Kåñëa, Govinda, yes I will call Him. Prabhupäda: Yes, yes. Guest: Attachment should be to Govinda, not to an organization. Prabhupäda: Yes. No. Govinda is absolute. Govinda and Govinda's organization the same. Govinda is absolute. Guest: I don't want to discuss it, I told you. I'm not competent to discuss. I'm just telling you what I think. Prabhupäda: No. I'm also answering this point. Just like Kåñëa, His name, His form, His pastimes, His entourage, they are all the same. Otherwise, what is the benefit of chanting Kåñëa's name? Suppose I am thirsty just now. If I simply chant the name of water, "water,'' I'll not be satisfied. Water is required, actual substance. But when you chant "Kåñëa,'' if Kåñëa name is different from Kåñëa, then you... (end) Room Conversation February 15, 1972, Madras Explaining Mayavad, Buddhist philosophy and how to purify desires. Prabhupäda: (reading:) "...Kåñëa can be described, not (indistinct) Him, his mind becomes totally associated with Him. His Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupäda in his discourse at the (indistinct) Sunday, said there was no rigid rules and regulations for chanting the Hare Kåñëa mantra, nor does it require formal education. While uttering the name of Sri Kåñëa one should focus the mind on the image and form of the Lord, His auspicious activities, His delightful sport, and His role as Gétä-äcärya. Lord Caitanya, during His visit to a temple in South India, found a man scanning the pages of the Bhagavad-gétä without seeming to read the verses, and inquiring the same, found that the person was illiterate and yet he was turning the pages of the Gétä at the request of his master because as he did so, he had a vision of Sri Kåñëa expounding spiritual knowledge to Arjuna on the Kurukñetra battlefield. Thereupon Caitanya embraced him in all admiration for his devotion, sincere faith, and guidance of the spiritual master as necessary for God realization.'' They give very nice article. You have seen it? Madhudviña: No. (pause) He doesn't give the receipt number. He says... [break] Prabhupäda: ...all the educated men. Yad yad äcarati çreñöhas tat tad evetaro janaù [Bg. 3.21]. If the, who is called, elite society appreciate, then ordinary people will also appreciate. Before my Guru Maharaja, I mean, Bhaktisiddhänta's..., Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura, Lord Caitanya's cult was considered by the higher class as it is the business of the low-class men. Even Vivekananda remarked that "It is the religion of sex,'' because they saw that the sahajiyäs, they discussed this räsa-lélä and have illicit connection with woman. So therefore they took it as the religion of sex. Vivekananda. But now... Guest: (Hindi) Prabhupäda: These are the remark. And now we have to establish this, that this is the only way to reach God. You have to become scholar, philosopher, worker, practical behavior. And that is the fact. Otherwise why Kåñëa says sarva-dharmän parityajya mäm ekaà çaraëam [Bg. 18.66]? You have to prove it. And Bhägavata says, dharmaù projjhita-kaitavaù: "Except surrendering to Kåñëa, anything, that is simply cheating,'' cheating, kaitavaù. Cheating religion. This is challenged by God, "Cheating religion." We have to save people from the cheating type of religion, cheating type of religion, cheating type of dharma. It is so important movement. So this is very good thought of high-court judges. He has stated also, just before that, vicära. You marked? Devotee: Yes. Prabhupäda: Caitanyera dayära kathä karaha vicära. Vicära means statement. Just try to understand the mercy of Lord Caitanya, and give your judgement. This is not a sentimental, as people take it as a sentimental. Most scientific, logical. So how they like that slides? Giriräja: Very much. I think we may have a brief slide show tonight also. Prabhupäda: Yes. You have got all the slides? Giriräja: We have many slides of paintings, of different activities... [break] Prabhupäda: ...have no attachment. These are all nonsense. You cannot be (indistinct). A living being, to become desireless, how you can? I am living. I am not a dead body. Desire should be to satisfy Kåñëa. Attachment should be for Him. That's all. You have to change. That is Kåñëa consciousness. You have now attachment for sense gratification, desire for sense gratification. This has to be changed. Purification of desire, purification of attachment. Tat paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Eyes, because it is diseased, you don't pluck out. This is nonsense. Cure the eyes of the disease, then you will see things right. The Mäyävädé philosophy is pluck out the eyes. Buddha philosophy is make it zero. That is also same thing, plucking out. Our philosophy is "No. Cure it.'' That is the difference. It is very simple. Which one is better? Just like a man is suffering from disease, fever, and doctor gives him medicine. He dies. Then the patient's guardian says, "Sir, he is dead now. You have given some medicine, he is dead.'' "That's all right, fever is gone. Fever is gone. Never mind he is dead.'' (laughter) These rascal philosophy statement is like that. Make zero. Make imperson. Then the difficulties of personality... Because they have got very bad experience of personality here. He had to become minister, he has become king and this and that, householder, all botheration. So make imperson. That's all. Negation. Personality is giving us trouble, so make imperson. God must be imperson, because as soon as we have person, there is trouble. They have got experience. (indistinct) as soon as they (indistinct), make it zero, then there is no pains and pleasure. The body, because Buddha philosophy does not give any idea of soul-bodily concept. The body is combination of matter, so dismantle this combination. Just like you have got a skyscraper building, so you have to pay tax. Break it, make it zero, so no tax. This is philosophy. Do you follow? You have got a very big building, so you have to pay tax. To save tax, break the building. No more taxes. No more pains and pleasure. No more anxiety. That is Buddha philosophy. That means these philosophers are called fools and rascal, less intelligent. Would you like this advice, that you have got a big building, just like in London there is a big building, and he has got a policy anyway that he does not allow any tenant. Largest building in London, to save tax. But his point is different. In Bengali there is adage that (Bengali), that a man's utensils were stolen by a thief, so he became very angry, that "A thief has taken all my utensil. All right, I shall not purchase utensil. I shall take food on the floor. I shall take food on the floor. No more utensils. I shall not keep plates and utensils any more. I shall take food on the floor.'' This is philosophy. [break] We don't believe in so-called nonviolence, nonattachment, zero. No. We believe in everything, but if there is required violence, fight, "Yes, come on.'' Yes. Arjuna. No consideration, "The other side my grandfather, my father, or this or that. Kåñëa wants this fight to kill them all.'' Gopés, at dead of night they went to Kåñëa: "Kåñëa wants us. Oh, we don't care for all this social convention. Kick out. Let us go.'' Prahläda Maharaja, Nåsiàhadeva killing his father, "Oh, Kåñëa is taking pleasure in killing my father. That is all right. (laughter) That I don't protest.'' He could have said, "My dear Lord, please do not kill my father.'' Immediately he would have been saved from that. (phone rings) Devotee: Could be Puri Maharaja. Prabhupäda: Go, go, go. So that is our point. Bali Maharaja, he saw that his so-called Çukräcärya, caste Goswämé, is checking him to offer anything to Vämanadeva. "Oh, I don't like you. I reject you. I don't want a spiritual master like you, who is checking me for offering to Kåñëa.'' This is a mahäjana. Prahläda Maharaja became mahäjana. Gopés became the topmost devotee. Why? For Kåñëa. They neglected any social convention, this, that. "No. Kåñëa must be satisfied.'' That is the most... That is Kåñëa conscious. [break] Prabhupäda: Only point is, "Make it zero. And so long you are living, enjoy as you like, because afterwards you are going to be zero. There is no responsibility. So you gratify your senses to the fullest extent.'' That's all. Just like, I do not know, I have never hanged, but anyone who is going to be hanged, he is offered that "Whatever you want, you can enjoy.'' Is that... Çyämasundara: Yes. Prabhupäda: ...fact? Çyämasundara: Yes. Prabhupäda: So their philosophy, "You are going to be hanged. Now you can enjoy whatever you like.'' So this philosophy, that because the Mäyävädé philosophy is impersonal, zero, therefore people don't care for sin. "Enjoy life. You shall finish." Devotee: There's the story of a man who is being hanged and they said, "You can have whatever you want.'' So he said, "Whatever I want?'' So they said, "Yes.'' So he says, "I want ten more years life." Prabhupäda: We don't say whatever you want. You enjoy. Gratify your senses as much as you like. Mälaté: Prabhupäda? What class of impersonalists are worshiping the Puruña-sükta? Prabhupäda: Hum? Mälaté: What class of impersonalists are worshiping the universal form? Prabhupäda: Well, universal form is not impersonal. That is personal. That is also manifestation of Kåñëa. Mälaté: But you say that... In one of your purports you are saying that the impersonalists are worshiping the universal form. Prabhupäda: They are advised. Çyämasundara: Ah, advised to worship. Mälaté: They are advised to worship. (end) Srila Prabhupada in Madras From The Transcendental Diary, Volume 1 By His Grace Hari Çauri däs. January 1, 1976 At 8:55 a.m. Çréla Prabhupäda, Tamal Krishna Mahäräja, Harikeça, and I flew to Madras. Acyutänanda, Yaçodänandana, Gurukåpa, and Mahäàsa Mahäräjas; Çravaëänanda and Bhävabhüti prabhus, the co-temple presidents of ISKCON Madras; members of the Näma Haööa saìkértana party; and a small but very enthusiastic group of life members all greeted us at the Madras airport. They held a rousing kértana in the small airport building, bringing everything to a standstill. The life members were swept up by the enthusiasm of the devotees, and at least 30-40 garlands were draped around Çréla Prabhupäda's neck. Çréla Prabhupäda was beaming with pleasure at the reception, and after a few minutes we were led out to a waiting Mercedes sedan, loaned for the week by a well-wisher, and driven to a life member's home. We are staying at the house of Mr. Manical Bhai, an extremely pleasant and respectful Maòwari businessman. A member of the Vallabha-sampradäya, he is a strict vegetarian. It is a large, quiet house, and Prabhupäda has been given a section of the top floor with a porch. The steep climb was a bit daunting for Prabhupäda, as he is still very weak from uremia. Thus we carried him up in a chair. For us, of course, it was a welcome burden, a pleasure to relieve Çréla Prabhupäda of any strain, but it was definitely not a good sign. Later in the morning he conducted a well attended press conference. He explained to the reporters that the propagation of the Kåñëa consciousness movement is aimed at educating the foolish modern civilization that indeed there is God, as described in the Bhagavad-gétä. * * * It was a quiet day with few visitors, and Prabhupäda relaxed. In the evening Mr. Bhai drove him to the Räjeçvari Kalyäna Maëòapam, for the first of two programs arranged by Çravaëänanda and Bhävabhüti Prabhus. The venue is a popular marriage hall on Cathedral Road, with a seating capacity for about 2,000. The devotees had managed to get a life member to pay for the hire. The hall is light and airy with two open sides and a recessed ceiling about thirty feet high. At the center back there is a raised platform with a heavily sculpted gazebo like structure over it where the weddings are performed. Opposite this is a modest stage, recessed into the wall. On this the devotees have made simple, but attractive, arrangements for the two days of programs. In the center of the stage they have placed a beautiful vyäsäsana for Prabhupäda, a gift from the owner of the Globe Mirror company, another enthusiastic supporter. A large banner across the back wall, prominently featuring the ISKCON lotus flower logo and name of the Society and that of Çréla Prabhupäda, completes the decorations. When Çréla Prabhupäda arrived the hall was packed, the mood relaxed and expectant. He mounted the stage and took his place on the vyäsäsana. Co-temple presidents Bhävabhüti and Çravaëänanda offered garlands and the devotees danced exuberantly to the kértana led by Acyutänanda Swami. The devotees had invited the Governor of Tamil Nadu to attend. During the state of emergency he apparently has more authority in the state than the Chief Minister. He gave a short opening speech, praising the work Çréla Prabhupäda is doing to spread Kåñëa consciousness all over the world. He presented Prabhupäda with a garland, and Prabhupäda in turn gave him one of his personal copies of the new Sixth Canto Çrémad-Bhägavatam. Unfortunately the Governor couldn't remain for the entire program because of prior commitments. Prabhupäda didn't seem to mind, though. He was satisfied to have a leading dignitary give support to his mission, especially here in Madras, a city noted for its efforts to smash traditional religious systems. Çréla Prabhupäda chanted jaya rädhä mädhava and then launched into an excellent fifty-minute lecture on Bhagavad-gétä (3.27). He emphasized the same theme from the morning's press conference, that the purpose of the Kåñëa consciousness movement is to educate the müòhas, the fools and rascals who refuse to accept the supremacy of God. Prabhupäda explained that God is canvassing, 'Here I am,' yet people continue to search for God. The verse itself explained the reason why: ahaìkära-vimüòhätmä, simply due to false egotism. "Somehow or other we have now this human form of life," he said. "Kåñëa said that utilize it very nicely so that the problems of life are finished. And that knowledge is very easy. Simply try to understand Kåñëa. That's all. That will solve. And Kåñëa is explaining Himself, what He is. Where is the difficulty? Unless you make some interpretation foolishly, everything is very clear. So you can understand Kåñëa. "And if you understand Kåñëa, then result is janma karma ca me divyam evaà yo vetti tattvataù, tyaktvä dehaà punar janma naiti mäm eti kaunteya. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. "Therefore our request is, take to this Kåñëa consciousness. If the foreigners can take to it very seriously, so why not Indians? It is Indians' knowledge. Bhagavad-gétä was spoken in India. Why you are neglecting it? Why you are not taking advantage? Why you are falsely proud that you are independent? These are our questions." Prabhupäda's straightforward approach appealed to his receptive audience who reciprocated by asking some thoughtful questions. The first was about "isms." Someone asked, "Is Kåñëa consciousness Hinduism?" "It is Kåñëaism," Prabhupäda explained. "Hinduism means a type of faith, or Muslimism is type of faith. But, as it is described in the English dictionary, religion means a kind of faith. It is not that type of religion. It is a compulsory fact. Just like sugar is, compulsorily, must become sweet. If sugar is not sweet, that is not real sugar. Chili is not hot? That is not real chili. "Similarly, we are part and parcel of Kåñëa. Our duty is to become Kåñëa conscious. There is no question of faith. You may have faith in Hinduism, tomorrow you may have faith in Christianism. Or you may have faith in Christianism, tomorrow in Mohammedan. This kind of faith is not Kåñëa consciousness. Just like laws of the state. It is not that it is meant for the Hindus, or for the Muslims, for the Christian. It is meant for everyone. Similarly, mamaiväàço jéva bhütaù. We are part and parcel of Kåñëa, so it is compulsory to revive our consciousness that we are part and parcel of Kåñëa. It is not a question of faith. Faith you may accept or do not accept, but here it is a question of 'must.' You must revive your Kåñëa consciousness, otherwise you will suffer." The second questioner wanted some clarification on the distinction between form and formlessness. "The personal form and impersonal form, there are two conceptions," Çréla Prabhupäda replied. "But Kåñëa explains this, that mayä tatam idaà sarvam jagat avyakta-mürtinä. Avyaktam, impersonal, that is another form of Kåñëa. So the whole creation is Kåñëa's expansion of energy, just like the sunshine. Sunshine is also the same quality, heat and light, as the sun-globe or the sun-god. But the sunshine is impersonal, and the sun-globe is localized. And within the sun-globe there is sun-god. So that is the main source of everything. Éçvaraù paramaù kåñëaù sac-cid-änanda vigrahaù. Brahmaëo aham pratiñöhä. Kåñëa is the source of brahmajyoti. So impersonal or personal, whatever you take, that is Brahman. Brahmeti paramätmeti bhagavän iti çabdyate ... whatever you take, that is emanation from Kåñëa. But Kåñëa has said, if you want to approach the Absolute Truth through the impersonal form, then it will be little difficult. Perhaps you may not reach the ultimate goal. You may fall down. There are so many instances. "We have seen in India so many big, big sannyäsés. They give up this world—brahma satyaà jagan mithyä—but after some days they come down to the jagat and engage themselves in politics. Why? They could not stay in the Brahman stage. That is stated in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam. By concentrating on the impersonal form they think that they have become liberated, but actually aviçuddha-buddhayaù, the impersonal conception is not purified intelligence. Ye 'nye 'ravindäkña vimukta-mäninas. You may think that 'I have become liberated.' But it is not. Why? äruhya kåcchreëa paraà padaà tataù patanty adhah. After so much trouble and austerity, penances, you may acquire a position in impersonal Brahman, but there is chance of falling down from there. Patanty adhah. Why? Anädåta yuñmad aìghrayaù. 'Because they could not find out how to worship Your lotus feet.' So unless you come to the personal form of the Absolute Truth, there is difficulty and there is chance of falling down." A third man said that he considered Christianity and Kåñëa consciousness to be the same. He wanted to know what Prabhupäda had to say about that. Prabhupäda answered, "Everything is Kåñëa consciousness. It is question of degrees. Suppose Kåñëa is there on the top, and it is one hundred steps. So somebody has covered five steps, somebody has covered ten steps, somebody has covered one hundred steps. Like that. So everyone is searching after Kåñëa, but there are degrees of realization of Kåñëa. Either Christian, Mohammedan, or any, they are searching after Kåñëa. That is all right, but it is a question of degrees, how far they have gone forward. The last stage is sarva-dharmän parityajya mäm ekaà çaraëaà vraja. That is the final stage." Another man asked if the Kåñëa consciousness movement was a development of the Gauòéya Maöha. Prabhupäda answered noncommittally. "No, Kåñëa consciousness is there in the Bhagavad-gétä. It is nobody's property. It is Kåñëa's instruction." The next question caused a stir in the audience. Without being outright offensive a man clearly tried to challenge Çréla Prabhupäda's own qualifications. "Swamijé, what is the color of Kåñëa? It is blue or black? Not according to çästra, but your experience." Prabhupäda delighted everyone with his reply. "So, if you kindly advance in Kåñëa consciousness, then you will understand." Amidst loud applause and laughter he took the next couple of enquiries and then another challenge. A man wanted to know why the Kåñëa consciousness movement was popular in the Western countries, but not in India where Kåñëa appeared. Challenging the accuracy of his statement, Prabhupäda retorted, "It is very popular here also. Otherwise why you have come here?" Everyone clapped and laughed at his sharp reply, but the man was insistent. "But it is not so popular." "Kåñëa is popular in India very much. Every house, they observe Kåñëa-janmäñöamé." At the mention of Kåñëa's birthday the crowd clapped loudly, laughing and applauding as Prabhupäda added a punch line and reversed the implied criticism. "Unfortunately, you are forgetting this. That is the misfortune." Another query came from a man who wanted to know how to meditate on Brahman. "But how do we just meditate and get in touch with that Brahman? Is a thing there, a crucial point? Every one of you knows from ..." Prabhupäda cut in. "Kåñëa does not say that you go everywhere... " "But how do we just meditate and get in touch with that Brahman? They say that you just have to meditate, transcendental meditation." "No, what they say, I do not know. I know what Kåñëa says, that's all." "Problem is to know... " The man's confusion typically illustrated exactly what Çréla Prabhupäda was always complaining about, that people hear about Lord Kåñëa from any source other than Kåñëa Himself and His bona fide representatives. They therefore simply become confused. "Our mission is to present before you what Kåñëa says, that's all," Prabhupäda said. "We are not concerned what other says. We are not concerned." Prabhupäda's strong reply stirred the crowd's appreciation of his fixed position and his refusal to be drawn off on a tangent. Many smiled and nodded at his no-nonsense, authoritative approach. It was exactly what they had come to hear. "All right, we have taken enough. Now no more. Chant Hare Kåñëa. You join with us." Leaving the devotees to finish with a film show and kértana, Prabhupäda left via a long arch-covered walkway. After a short drive back to the house and a chair lift upstairs, he settled comfortably in his room, thoroughly enlivened by the night's preaching. He called in Harikeça and had him set up the tape recorder so that he could listen to the play-back of his talk. He grinned and then laughed when it came to the point where he had referred to everyone as müòhas. "I have spoken very strongly," he said, "but still they did not protest. Rather they appreciated, 'Yes, it is fact.'" We also appreciated the beauty of Çréla Prabhupäda's character. He is so pure and free from malice or envy of others that he can speak with utter candor about people's faults and call them fools and rascals without anyone taking the least offense. Moreover, his own innocent wonder at how he is able to do this simply increases his charm many times over. January 2nd, 1976 Madras appears a pleasant city, not congested and generally clean and well-managed. On the way to Marina Beach for his morning walk Çréla Prabhupäda commended the well-kept, attractive buildings and wide beach-front road. The shore itself is a clean, wide, long stretch of sand. Along the shoreline fishing boats, catamarans, and nets were beached in clusters. The sea breeze was refreshing, and the lack of commercialization—coconut sellers, pän merchants, hotels and the like, and even people—made it a pleasant contrast to Bombay's Juhu Beach. In his usual fashion, Prabhupäda walked up and down the beach for half an hour both ways, engaging us in conversation. He'd stop occasionally to emphasize his points, enjoying the exercise and freshness of sand, sea, and sky. The sannyäsés were all present, as were the local devotees and some Life Members. Prabhupäda continued his exposé of modern science, prompting Harikeça to repeat some of the arguments they have discussed during the past month. Prabhupäda drew the newly arrived Tamal Krishna Mahäräja and other sannyäsés into the debate. The sun had risen, its light glinting across the water. Fishermen were repairing their light craft, readying them for another day's work on the unpredictable Bay of Bengal, while our little group discussed the structure of the universe and the eternal soul's ability to live in any condition, even within the fiery globe which now so brightly illuminated the entire sky. After a while Prabhupäda let the subject drop. He walked past a group of mounted police exercising their horses and then back to the pavement. Various statues of well known personalities and some very handsome buildings line the beach front. A house with Bengali writing on it came into view, attracting Prabhupäda's attention. It was the former residence of a well known sädhu. Acyutänanda asked if it had belonged to Swami Vivekänanda. Prabhupäda confirmed that after coming back from foreign countries Vivekänanda had made his position here in Madras. Acyutänanda said that a Life Member from Calcutta called Veni Sankara Sharma had written a book titled An Unknown Chapter of the Life of Swami Vivekänanda. The book claimed that Vivekänanda smoked a hookah and ate meat. To this information, Prabhupäda replied, "Yes, that is known to everyone." Yaçodänandana knew someone in Hyderabad who used to cook for the Räma Kåñëa Mission. He told Prabhupäda, "He said they used to cook any kind of meat." Acyutänanda said that he had once asked that cook, "Did you ever cook human meat?" The cook had told him, "If they told me, I would have done that also." Acyutänanda added, "There was nothing beyond their diet." The party went on to decipher the Bengali title over the house, identifying it as 'The House of Vivekananda.' "They say Swami Vivekananda walked barefoot all over India at some stage of his life. This statue here is his life as a wandering sädhu," Acyutänanda offered. But Prabhupäda asked, "Who is a sädhu? Then the question is, who is a sädhu? You cannot say?" Acyutänanda said, "One who is Kåñëa conscious." "Unless one is cent-per-cent Kåñëa conscious, he is not a sädhu," Prabhupäda said. "Sädhu-bhüñaëäù. Titikñavaù käruëikäù suhådaù sarva-dehinäm/ ajäta-çatravaù çäntäù sädhavaù sädhu-bhüñaëäù. This is sädhu." As we approached our vehicles Prabhupäda made a wry comment about the monuments erected along the beach front. "All statues are crying here!" Amongst them Acyutänanda Swami picked out another figure of recent prominence. This one was not an Indian but a Western woman, Annie Besant, who converted from Christianity to Hinduism. In the days of the British Raj such conversion to Hinduism would almost deify the person in the eyes of the ordinary Indians. Prabhupäda remarked sardonically, "They come to be avatära here. And she also came from Ireland to become avatära here." Acyutänanda Swami explained how she had become interested in the Gétä. "She was Christian, and her infant died. So she asked the priests whether the child's soul would go to heaven or hell. And why? She felt that the child hadn't done anything. But she was dissatisfied with their answers. Eventually she heard about transmigration of the soul. Then she became interested in the Gétä and India." Prabhupäda asked, "So did she understand?" Acyutänanda said, "Well, only up to transmigration of the soul." "She admits," Prabhupäda said. Acyutänanda said, "Yes." As we were about to return to our residence, a few gentlemen accompanying us on the walk told Prabhupäda how much they appreciated his practical explanations of spiritual life, although they admitted that sometimes they were difficult to accept. One of them commented candidly, "Two and two will always be four. But we people don't agree so far." Prabhupäda smiled. "Yes. You want five." They burst out laughing. "We want five, correct!" He told them a short story about a grocer's son who was doing business on his father's behalf. He was giving change of four rupees instead of the correct amount, five. So the customer said, "Why you are giving me four rupees?" The boy pleaded innocence. "No, I do not know what is the exchange." So the customer then said, "No, it is six rupees." To which the anxious boy replied, "No, my father will be angry!" Amidst loud laughing Prabhupäda explained, "It means he knows perfectly well what is five rupees, but he is innocent when he was giving four rupees. And when the customer wanted six rupees, 'No, my father will be angry!'" He used the anecdote to illustrate the mentality of men who want to comment on the Gétä and other works without accepting the real meaning, adding distortions to suit their own purpose. "They have created havoc by misinterpreting Bhagavad-gétä, all people," he said. "According to their wish, 'Five rupees note means four rupees.' By imagination. They have created havoc all over the world. Otherwise everything is there. If we take Kåñëa's instruction, then the whole world becomes immediately happy. But they will not take it. They will manufacture their own: two plus two equal to five or three, not exactly four." He advised the men to read his books, especially the new The Nectar of Instruction. When they complained that no books were available at his lecture last night, Prabhupäda was extremely concerned. Mahäàsa Swami reassured him there had indeed been a book table present and many books were sold. The men hadn't seen it, so Çréla Prabhupäda told the sannyäsés, "Keep the book table in a prominent place so that others can see. And any book which is not in stock, you can note down his order so that you can send him later on. Recently we have published a very important book, The Nectar of Instruction. For the common man it is very nice." * * * This morning Mr. Bhai and his wife came upstairs to see Çréla Prabhupäda after breakfast and requested him to narrate some stories about Kåñëa's pastimes in Våndävana. They especially wanted to hear about the rasa-lélä, Kåñëa's intimate activities with the gopés. Çréla Prabhupäda has, of course, often told us that confidential topics may be discussed only with those qualified to hear. For his hosts he made no exception. He excused himself by saying that personally he wasn't qualified to speak of such things. Despite their persistence, he would not discuss the topic. * * * This evening's program was again an extremely successful one. The guest of honor was the Chief Justice of Madras. The Justice gave an introductory speech in which he described how modern materialistic life results in ultimate suffering. He made some good points, but his talk was also riddled with philosophical misunderstanding. Nevertheless, he was polite and respectful. Prabhupäda didn't correct him directly, but in the course of his lecture redressed his mistaken ideas. The full house listened attentively as Çréla Prabhupäda delivered another lengthy and erudite discourse, from one of his favorite sections of Çrémad-Bhägavatam, the bhägavata-dharma instructions of Prahläda Mahäräja to his school friends. Again he repeatedly stressed the necessity of hearing from authorized sources in order to properly understand what is real dharma. He firmly established that dharma means three things—to know Kåñëa, to act in relationship to Kåñëa, and finally to achieve the goal of going back to Kåñëa, back to Godhead. To loud applause Prabhupäda asked for questions, and there was no shortage of enquiries. With Acyutänanda Swami acting as the moderator, he answered them all to everyone's full satisfaction. Acyutänanda Mahäräja repeated the first question. "This is a world of çakti, or energy. There is a worldwide rise in the prices of energy resources, like oil, coal, gas, and electricity. This means there is a depletion of these energy resources. Naturally, there will be worldwide destruction of mankind and other living beings and materials in the near future. What are your views?" Prabhupäda offered a new angle on the subject, and everyone clapped as they appreciated his ability to link everything sensibly and practically to the central purpose of life. "Yes," he said, "these material things, they are energies. That is described in the Bhagavad-gétä: bhümir äpo 'nalo väyuù khaà mano buddhir eva ca; bhinnä prakåtir añöadhä. The petrol is also another form of Kåñëa's energy. Parasya çaktir vividhaiva çrüyate. There are many millions of energies. Na tasya käryaà karaëaà ca vidyate. Kåñëa has nothing to do because everything is being done by His energy. Although He is the ultimate source of everything, He is doing everything by His energy, and it appears that it is being automatically done. It is not automatically done. It is done by Kåñëa's energy. So this material energy is also Kåñëa's energy. It is not a different energy. Petrol is liquid thing, so äpa. So it is Kåñëa's energies. Our Vaiñëava philosophy is that Kåñëa's energies should be utilized for Kåñëa. This is Kåñëa consciousness. So everything can be utilized for service of Kåñëa. When you use this petrol for spreading Kåñëa consciousness, if we can use 1,000 or 100,000 motor cars using petrol for spreading Kåñëa consciousness, that is the proper utilization of petrol." Acyutänanda repeated a lady's question. "Kåñëa says to perform your svadharma. So how does one know what is his svadharma?" "That is svadharma when Kåñëa says, 'You surrender unto Me.' That is your svadharma. Because you are part and parcel of Kåñëa, your business is to serve Kåñëa. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. So I say, 'Finger, please come here,' he immediately comes. This is the normal condition of the finger. Similarly, if you are really healthy, in normal condition, then you must be ready to serve Kåñëa. That is your svadharma." Prabhupäda's example was simple but lucid, and again the alert audience clapped to show that they understood. A man, obviously a pantheist, was next. "There are many incarnations, including Kåñëa. So Kåñëa gave Bhagavad-gétä. That doesn't mean that the author has not given all the gods, whether including Kåñëa... " Prabhupäda cut in. "So that I have already explained, that incarnation—whose incarnation? The question will be, whose incarnation?" "God. God." "God's. So that God is Kåñëa. You do not know that. Now learn it." "Is not Räma a God?" "Yes. Incarnation means somebody's incarnation. So who is that somebody? That is Kåñëa. That's all. If you do not know it, you understand now." Acyutänanda Mahäräja took one last question. "Is it necessary that a person should pass through the three äçramas-brahmacäré, gåhastha, vänaprastha—before coming to sannyäsa?" Prabhupäda answered, "That is the normal rules and regulation, that especially brähmaëa, he must go through the four äçramas. First of all become brahmacäré, then gåhastha, then vänaprastha, then take sannyäsa. This is for the brähmaëas. And for the kñatriyas: brahmacäré, gåhastha, and vänaprastha. And for the vaiçyas: brahmacäré, gåhastha. And for the çüdras: only gåhastha. This is the process. This is normal process. But either one is brähmaëa or kñatriya or vaiçya or çüdra, if he takes to Kåñëa consciousness he becomes above these rules and regulations." Çréla Prabhupäda's comments were deeply appreciated because here in Madras, possibly more so than any place in India, the government is making a systematic attempt to dismantle the old caste system. However, their attempts to establish a more equitable society their attempts have often resulted in reverse discrimination against the caste brähmaëas. Prabhupäda is probably the first person to show them a true platform of equal dealings for all without disturbing the social balance. As they clapped he continued. "Yes; mäà ca yo 'vyabhicäreëa bhakti-yogena sevate/ sa guëän samatétyaitän brahma-bhüyäya kalpate. So this Kåñëa consciousness movement is that it is giving immediate lift to everyone to come to the transcendental platform, brahma-bhüyäya kalpate. But general state is varëäçrama-dharma. "Therefore Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu, when He was discussing with Rämänanda Räya, He first of all said, 'What is the aim of life?' "So Rämänanda Räya replied that 'First of all to begin this varëäçrama-dharma.' "So Caitanya Mahäprabhu said, 'Yes, this is all right. But this is external. If you know something better, please tell me.' "So in this way, step by step everything was described by Rämänanda Räya, and Caitanya Mahäprabhu did not reject it. He said, 'It is all right, but if you know something better...' Then at last, when Rämänanda said, quoting one verse from Çrémad-Bhägavatam, sthäne sthitäù çruti-gatäà tanu-väì-manobhir, that it doesn't matter what you are, you remain in your post. Sthäne sthitäù çruti-gatäà. Through aural reception if you hear about Kåñëa, then you become perfect. That is the statement. "So this is required at the present moment, that you remain whatever you are, either brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya, çüdra, Englishman, Indian—it doesn't matter. You try to understand Kåñëa, that's all. If you do that, then everything will be perfect. "That can be very easily done by chanting Hare Kåñëa mantra. Therefore Caitanya Mahäprabhu has given this mantra—it is from çästra—harer näma harer näma harer nämaiva kevalam, kalau nästy eva nästy eva. In this age, in Kali-yuga, it is very difficult to bring back the fallen population again to the standard of brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya. It is practically lost now. The best thing is that all of them combined together, brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya, çüdra, or even less than çüdra, kiräta-hüëändhra-pulinda-pulkaçä, take to this process of chanting and hearing of the Lord's name. Everything will be all right. "It is confirmed by Caitanya Mahäprabhu when he was discussing with Rämänanda Räya. He was a governor of this Madras province under the regime of Mahäräja Pratäparudra of Orissa. And he was politician, but he was a very learned scholar in Kåñëa science. Therefore Caitanya Mahäprabhu was talking with him. He was a çüdra by birth, and Caitanya Mahäprabhu was not only very exalted position, brähmaëa and sannyäsé; so Caitanya Mahäprabhu was questioning and he was answering. He felt little hesitation, that 'Sir, You are so exalted. I am a gåhastha and a politician, and how can I...?' "Immediately Caitanya Mahäprabhu encouraged him, 'No, no, no, don't hesitate! Kibä çüdra kibä vipra nyäsé kene naya, yei kåñëa-tattva-vettä sei 'guru' haya.' He said, 'Don't hesitate!' "It doesn't matter whether he is a gåhastha or sannyäsé, brähmaëa or çüdra. If he knows Kåñëa, he is guru. He is guru. That is wanted. We are teaching that Kåñëa consciousness." Çréla Prabhupäda brought his part of the program to a successful close. It was the final day, and everyone stood out of respect and appreciation as he made his way to the car. On the way back to Mr. Bhai's house Prabhupäda said he was happy to find the people of Madras eager to hear spiritual instruction. Both the arrangements and the response have pleased him. January 3rd, 1976, Nellore, Andhra Pradesh In the early morning Çréla Prabhupäda, Tamal Krishna Mahäräja, Harikeça, and I boarded a train heading north to Nellore, a small city in the state of Andhra Pradesh. The local Madras devotees saw us off at the station with a rousing kértana. Çrémad-Bhägavatam Lecture 7.6.1 Madras, January 2, 1976 Prabhupäda: çré-prahräda uväca kaumära äcaret präjïo dharmän bhägavatän iha durlabhaà mänuñaà janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam [SB 7.6.1] This is Prahläda Mahäräja. He is one of the authorities of Kåñëa consciousness. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the çästras: svayambhür näradaù çambhuù kumäraù kapilo manuù prahlädo janako bhéñmo balir vaiyäsakir vayam [SB 6.3.20] This is the statement of Yamaräja about the authorities of dharma. Dharma means bhägavata-dharma. I think I have explained last night, dharma means bhägavata-dharma. Dharmaà tu säkñäd bhagavat-praëétaà [SB 6.3.19]. Just like our Mr. Chief Justice gives judgment on the law, so the law cannot be manufactured by any common man or any businessman, no. Law can be manufactured only by the state, by the government. Nobody can manufacture. That will not give us... If in the high-court, if somebody pleads, "Sir, I have got my own law," Mr. Justice will not accept. (laughs) So similarly, dharma you cannot manufacture. Either you are a very big man... Even Chief Justice, he cannot make a law. The law is given by state. Similarly, dharma means bhägavata-dharma and other so-called dharmas, they are not dharmas. They will not be accepted. Exactly in the same way, law manufactured at your home is not accepted. Therefore dharmaà tu säkñäd bhagavat-praëétaà [SB 6.3.19]. And what is bhagavat-praëétaà dharma? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gétä, we know, everyone. He came, Kåñëa came. His mission was dharma-saàsthäpanärthäya, for establishing the religious principles, or reestablishing. Dharmasya glänir bhavati bhärata. Yadä yadä hi dharmasya glänir bhavati bhärata [Bg. 4.7]. So sometimes there is gläni, discrepancies in the matter of discharging the principles of dharma. At that time, Kåñëa comes. Pariträëäya sädhünäà vinäçäya ca duñkåtäm [Bg. 4.8]. Yuge yuge sambhavämi. So this dharma, Kåñëa did not come to reorganize the so-called dharmas: Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma, Buddha's dharma. No. According to Çrémad-Bhägavatam it is said, dharmaù projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. The dharma which is a type of cheating process, that kind of dharma is projjhita. Prakåñöa-rüpeëa ujjhita, means it is thrown away or kicked out. So real dharma is bhägavata-dharma, real dharma. Therefore Prahläda Mahäräja said, kaumära äcaret präjïo dharmän bhägavatän iha [SB 7.6.1]. Actually dharma means God and our relationship with God and acting according to that relationship so that we may attain the ultimate goal of life. That is dharma, sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana, these three things. The whole Vedas are divided into three states. Sambandha, what is our connection God. That is called sambandha. And then abhidheya. According to that relationship we have to act. That is called abhidheya. And why do we act? Because we have got the goal of life, to achieve the goal of life. So what is the goal of life? The goal of life is that, to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is goal of life. We are part and parcel of God. God is sanätana and He has His own abode, sanätana. Paras tasmät tu bhävo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktät sanätanaù [Bg. 8.20]. There is a place ever-existing. This material world, it will not exist forever. It is bhütvä bhütvä praléyate [Bg. 8.19]. It is manifested at a certain date. Just like your body and my body, it is manifested on a certain date. It will stay for some time. It will grow. It will give some by-product. Then we become old, dwindling, and then finished. This is called ñaò-vikära. of anything which is material. But there is another nature where there is no ñaò-vikära. That is eternal. So that is called sanätana-dharma. And the jévas, we living entities, we are also described as eternal. Na hanyate hanyamäne çarére [Bg. 2.20]. And the Lord is also addressed as sanätana. So our real situation is that we are sanätana, Kåñëa is sanätana, and Kåñëa has His abode, sanätana. When we go back to that sanätana-dhäma and live with the supreme sanätana, Kåñëa... And we are also sanätana. The process by which we can achieve this highest goal of life, that is called sanätana-dharma. We are executing here sanätana-dharma. So sanätana-dharma and this bhägavata-dharma, the same thing. Bhägavata, Bhagavän. From the word Bhagavän, bhägavata has come. So this bhägavata-dharma has been described by Çré Caitanya Mahäprabhu. He says, jévera svarüpa haya nitya kåñëa däsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. We are eternal servant of Kåñëa. This is. But at the present moment, with our material connection, instead of becoming the servant of God, or Kåñëa, we have become servants of so many other things, mäyä, and therefore we are suffering. We are not satisfied. There cannot be. It cannot fit. Just like you take one screw from the machine. If the screw somehow or other falls down it has no value. But the same screw, when you fit to the machine or the machine is not working for want of one screw, it is in disturbed condition, so you take that same screw and fit it and the machine working and the screw becomes very valuable. So we are part and parcel of god, Kåñëa. Mamaiväàço jéva-bhütaù [Bg. 15.7], He says, Kåñëa. So we are now separated. We are fallen down. Another example is just like big fire and the small sparks. The small spark is also fire so long it is with the fire. And if somehow or other the sparks fall down out of the fire, it extinguishes. There is no more fire quality. But if you take it again and put it into the fire, again it becomes spark. So our position is like that. Somehow or other, we have come to this material world. Although we are a small particle, fragmental parts of the Supreme Lord, but because we are in this material world we have forgotten our relationship with God, and our... Manaù-ñañöhänéndriyäëi prakåti-sthäni karñati [Bg. 15.7]. We are struggling against the laws of material world, so many other things. Here also we are serving because we are eternally servant. But because we have given up the service of the Supreme Lord, we have been engaged as servant of so many things. But nobody is satisfied, as (the) honorable Justice said, that nobody is satisfied. That's a fact. It cannot be satisfied. It cannot be satisfied because we are constitutionally servant of God but we have been placed in this material world to serve so many other things which is not fitting. Therefore we are creating plans of service. That is called mental concoction. Manaù-ñañöhänéndriyäëi prakåti-sthäni karñati [Bg. 15.7]. A struggle, it is a struggle. So we are making different plans but it will not be successful. That much I explained last night, that we are thinking independent and we are planning so many things independently to become happy. It is not possible. That is not possible. That is mäyä's illusory play. Daivé hy eñä guëa-mayé mama mäyä duratyayä. You cannot surpass. Then what is the ultimate solution? Mäm eva ye prapadyante mäyäm etäà taranti te [Bg. 7.14]. If we surrender to Kåñëa, then we revive our original position. That is... Kåñëa consciousness means instead of keeping so many things in consciousness... They are all polluted consciousness. The real... We have got consciousness, that is a fact, but our consciousness is polluted. So we have to purify the consciousness. To purify consciousness means bhakti. Bhakti, the definition given in Närada-païcarätra... Rüpa Gosvämé... Rüpa Gosvämé says, anyäbhiläñitä-çünyaà jïäna-karmädy-anävåtam änukülyena kåñëänu- çélanaà bhaktir uttamä [Brs. 1.1.11] This is first-class bhakti that there is no other motive. Anyäbhilä... Because here in the material world, under the control of the material nature Prakåteù kriyamäëäni guëaiù karmäëi sarvaçaù, ahaìkära-vimüòhätmä kartä... [Bg. 3.27]. We are under the full control of the prakåti, material nature. But because we are foolish, we have forgotten our position, so ahaìkära, false ahaìkära. This is false ahaìkära: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brähmaëa," "I am kñatriya." This is false ahaìkära. Therefore Närada-païcarätra says sarvopädhi-vinirmuktaà [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. So one has to become free, uncontaminated from all these designations, "I am Indian," "I am American," I am this," "I am that." "I am..." Sarvopädhi vinirmuktaà tat-paratvena nirmalam. When he is purified, nirmalam, without any designation, that "I am part and parcel of Kåñëa." Ahaà brahmäsmi. This is ahaà brahmäsmi. Kåñëa is Parabrahman. He is described in the Çrémad-Bhagavad-gétä. Arjuna... Paraà brahma paraà dhäma pavitraà paramaà bhavän puruñaà çäçvatam ädyam [Bg. 10.12]. Arjuna recognized and he said, "You are recognized by all the authorities." Prahläda Mahäräja is one of the authorities. I have described the authorities. Brahmä is authority, Lord Çiva is authority, and Kapila is authority, Kumära, four Kumäras, they are authorities, and Manu is authority. Similarly, Prahläda Mahäräja is authority. Janaka Mahäräja is authority. The twelve authorities. So Arjuna confirmed that "You are speaking, Yourself, that You are the Supreme Lord," mattaù parataraà nänyat [Bg. 7.7], "and from discussion of Bhagavad-gétä, I also accept You Parabrahman. And not only that, all the authorities, they also accept you." Recently, in our time, Rämänujäcärya, Madhväcärya, all the äcäryas, they also accept Kåñëa. Even Çaìkaräcärya, he accepts Kåñëa. Sa bhagavän svayaà kåñëaù. So Kåñëa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all the äcäryas. So we have to learn from the äcäryas, not any common man or any self-made äcärya. No. That will not do. Just like we... Sometimes in the court we give some judgment from the other court and that is taken very seriously because it is authority. We cannot manufacture judgment. Similarly, äcäryopäsanaà, in the Bhagavad-gétä it is recommended. We have to go to the äcäryas. Äcäryavän puruño veda: "One who has accepted äcärya in the disciplic succession, he knows the things." So all the äcäryas, they accept Kåñëa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Närada, he accepts, Vyäsadeva, he accepts, and Arjuna also accepts, who personally listened to Kåñëa, Bhagavad-gétä. And Lord Brahmä. Yesterday somebody questioned that "Whether there was the name of Kåñëa before Dväpara-yuga?" No, there was. In the çästras there are Kåñëa. In the Vedas, in Atharva Veda and others, Kåñëa name is there. And in the Brahma-saàhitä—Lord Brahmä, he wrote Brahma-saàhitä—it is clearly explained there, éçvaraù paramaù kåñëaù sac-cid-änanda-vigrahaù [Bs. 5.1], anädir ädiù. Anädir ädir govindaù sarva-käraëa-käraëam [Bs. 5.1]. And Kåñëa also says, mattaù parataraà nänyat kiïcid asti dhanaïjaya [Bg. 7.7]. Ahaà sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8]. Sarvasya means including all the devatäs, all the living entities, everything. And the Vedänta says, janmädy asya yataù [SB 1.1.1]. So Kåñëa is the absolute Supreme Person, éçvaraù paramam, from Lord Brahma. He is the distributor of Vedic knowledge, and Kåñëa says also, vedaiç ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. This is ultimate goal. So the bhägavata-dharmam, bhagavän, kåñëas tu bhagavän svayam. In the list of the incarnation given in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam there is name of Kåñëa also. But at the conclusion, Vyäsadeva says, ete cäàça-kaläù puàsaù kåñëas tu bhagavän svayam [SB 1.3.28]. He concludes that "All the incarnation mentioned here, they are aàça-kaläù, part, partly manifestation or part of partly manifestation." Kaläù means part of partly(?) manifestation. "But the name which is mentioned here, Kåñëa, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Kåñëas tu bhagavän svayam. [break] Ete cäàça-kaläù puàsaù kåñëas tu bhagavän svayam. So Kåñëa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is accepted by all the äcäryas. And in the Bhagavad-gétä Arjuna says, asamaurdhva. Asama: "There is no equal to you, asama, and urdhva, nobody is greater than You." That is God. Supreme means who has no equal, neither anyone is greater than. Everyone is under. That is called asama urdhva. This is there. So there cannot be any competitor of God. God is one. Ekaà brahma dvitéyaà nästi. But He expands in different way. That is explained in the Varäha Puräëa, sväàça vibhinnäàça. He expands as Viñëu-tattva. That is sväàça. And he expands as jéva-tattva. That is vibhinnäàça. So we are also expansions of God, vibhinnäàça, a small fragmental portion. The qualities are there, very, very small quantity. But the whole potency is there in Kåñëa. Nityo nityänäà cetanaç cetanänäm (Kaöha Upaniñad 2.2.13). So there is one supreme living being, a supreme eternal, and that is Kåñëa. This is... And to cultivate this knowledge is called bhägavata-dharma. So Prahläda Mahäräja, he learned this bhägavata-dharma when he was a baby within the womb of his mother he learned this bhägavata-dharma. So the devotees—çravaëaà kértanaà viñëoù—they are engaged with these nine different phases of bhakti. çravaëaà kértanaà viñëoù smaraëaà päda-sevanam arcanaà vandanaà däsyaà sakhyam ätma-nivedanam [SB 7.5.23] So they are different devotees who have accepted one of them. Just like çré-viñëu-çravaëe parékñit. Parékñit Mahäräja, he simply heard, listened from Çukadeva Gosvämé the bhägavata-dharma. He simply heard. He did not do anything else. Simply by hearing. And abhavad vaiyäsakiù kértane. Vaiyäsaki, the son of Vyäsadeva, Çukadeva Gosvämé, he simply explained bhägavata. So both of them got the same goal of life, liberation. And liberation means muktir hitvä anyathä rüpaà svarüpeëa avasthitiù. This is called mukti. In the Çrémad-Bhägavatam it is said. Mukti means... Just like a person has fallen sick. He cannot walk. He cannot go to his office or... So many disadvantages. But when he is cured of the sickness or fever, he again comes to his normal life. Similarly, when we come to our normal life, that is called mukti. Mukti does not mean, "Now I have got two hands; I'll get four hands or two heads or five heads," not like that. Simply to come to our normal condition. That is the definition of bhakti also. Real mukti means to be situated in bhakti. That is mukti. Mukti... Simply to understand that "I am Brahman," that is not mukti. That is mukti... That is like convalescent stage. Just like a man has no fever but he is not cured. There may be relapse again. There is possibility of relapse, typhoid fever. So the brahmänubhüti, Brahman realization, ahaà brahmäsmi, it is mukti but it is not very secure position. One may fall down again. That is stated in the Çrémad-Bhägavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindäkña vimukti-mäninaù. Vimukti-mäninaù. They think they are Brahma-léna. They think that they have become mukta. But actually they are not muktas. Ye 'nye 'ravindäkña vimukta-mäninaù. He is thinking like that. Why? Aviçuddha-buddhayaù [SB 10.2.32]. His intelligence is not yet purified. As soon as it is purified, then it is bhakti. Therefore Bhagavän says that bahünäà janmanäm ante jïänavän mäà prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. He is a jïänavän that... Jïänavän means "I am not this body; I am not matter; I am spirit soul." That is jïäna. Jïäna means there must be vairägya, detestfulness, that "I have nothing to do with this material world." Jïäna-vairägya. If there is real jïäna, then there will be vairägya. Because we are suffering on account of an attachment to this material world, so jïäna means that "I have nothing to do with this material world because I am not this material body." Everyone is engaged in this bodily engagement, so-called, so many isms, all the activities of the world, because on account of this bodily conception of life. So when one becomes freed from the bodily conception of life he comes to the understanding of Brahman identification, and that is the beginning of mukti. That is not mukti. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gétä it is said that brahma-bhütaù prasannätmä [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as one realizes that "I am not this body, so why I should be interested in so-called social life or political life or this life, that life, because they are all due to this bodily conception of life?" So when one understands that "I am not this body, so what business I have got, this bodily conception of activities?" Prasannätmä, "I have no responsibility. I have no more responsibility with this bodily platform," prasannätmä, he gets relieved of so many engagements on account of this body: "I am Indian. I am a Hindu. I am brähmaëa. I am chief of this family. I have to take care of the so many persons," and so on, so many responsibilities. And so he feels relieved: "No, I have no responsibility." Brahma-bhütaù prasannätmä na çocati na käìkñati [Bg. 18.54]. If he does not identify himself with this matter, then if the matter is lost or gained what he has got to do with it? Na çocati na käìkñati. Because you have got material attachment, therefore something material lost we lament and something material we do not possess, we hanker. The two kinds of diseases. So brahma-bhütaù means these things are the symptom: he is joyful, prasannätmä, na çocati na käìkñati, and samaù sarveñu bhüteñu. Then he can see. Vidyä-vinaya-sampanne brähmaëi gavi hastini, çuni caiva çva-päke..., paëòita... [Bg. 5.18]. He has become paëòita. Samaù sarveñu bhüteñu. When these conditions are fulfilled, mad-bhaktià labhate paräm [Bg. 18.54]—then he enters into devotional service. So devotional service is not a sentiment. It is most scientific, just to become freed from the contamination of this material world. That means one who is devotee, he is already mukta, he is liberated. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gétä, that mäà cävyabhicäriëi bhakti-yogena yaù sevate sa guëän samatétyaitän brahma-bhüyäya kalpate [Bg. 14.26] So if you want to be brahma-léna, so that is... Actually brahma-léna means to be engaged twenty-four hours in devotional service. That is brahma-léna. There is not a second vacant without Kåñëa's service. Just like Caitanya Mahäprabhu said, çünyäyitaà jagat sarvaà govinda-viraheëa me: "I am seeing everything vacant without Govinda." That is Kåñëa consciousness. He is thinking simply on Kåñëa. And without Kåñëa, everything is zero. So simply to make the material world zero, çünyavädi... Just like the Buddhist philosophers, they think çünyavädi. And the Mäyävädé, nirviçeña. They are practically the same. The Buddhists say, "There is no God." And the Mäyävädés say, "There is God, but He has no head, tail, nothing." It is in the indirect way to say there is no God. What is difference? If somebody says, "There is no God," and if somebody says, "There is God, but He has no head, He has no tail, He cannot eat, He cannot sleep," negatively. The same definition in a negative way. Therefore Caitanya Mahäprabhu says that veda na mäniyä bauddha haila nästika. Our standard of philosophy, especially Vaiñëava philosophy... Anyone who does not accept the Vedic principle... Because vedaiç ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. If you do not accept the Vedic authority, then how you can understand God, Kåñëa? That is not possible. So anyone who says "There is no God. I don't care for the Vedas," he is calculated as nästika. So Caitanya Mahäprabhu said... The Buddhists, they decry the authority of Vedas. He had to do that. There was no way. Jayadeva Gosvämé offered his prayer to Lord Buddha. Nindasi yajïa-vidher ahaha çruti-jätam. Çruti. In the Vedas there is recommendation of yajïa, and in some of the yajïas there is recommendation of killing paçu. So Lord Buddha, he preached ahiàsä paramo dharma, no killing of animals. So these paëòitas, they will give evidence that in the Vedas there is description of killing animals. How you can stop it? So therefore he said, "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajïa-vidher ahaha çruti-jätam. Why? Why he did so? Sadaya-hådaya-darçita-paçu-ghätam. He was so much compassionate to see unnecessary killing of animals. Sadaya-hådaya. Therefore ahiàsä paramo dharmaù. That was his... Although he is the incarnation of God... Keçava dhåta-buddha-çaréra, jaya jagadéça hare. So the Vaiñëava can understand what is Lord Buddha and why he decried the authority of... Because there was no other way. So nindasi yajïa-vidher ahaha çruti-jätaà sadaya-hådaya darçita-paçu-ghätam keçava dhåta-buddha-çaréra jaya jagadéça hare So a Vaiñëava can understand what kind of part he is playing. So in this way there are different activities going on, and they have been taken as different types of dharma. But real dharma is bhägavata-dharma. Therefore Kåñëa says, sarva-dharmän parityajya mäm ekaà çaraëaà vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. That is called bhägavata-dharma, intimate relationship with the Lord, Bhagavän. Brahmeti bhagavän iti... Brahmeti paramätmä iti bhagavän iti. Tattva-vit. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaà yaj jïänam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. There is no difference between Brahman and Paramätmä and Bhagavän. But still, there is difference. This is called acintya-bheda-bhedäbheda. There are two kinds of philosophers, bheda and abheda, oneness and different. So these bheda, abheda, combine together. That is Caitanya Mahäprabhu's philosophy, acintya bheda abheda, simultaneously one and different. So other gods, they are also gods. We are also god. You are also god because god means controller. Your Honor, Chief Justice, he is also controlling the whole high-court. I am controlling this institution, you are controlling your family or office or factory. So in that sense everyone is god, controller. But he is not Supreme God, that is not. Supreme God is Kåñëa. We may be éçvara, god, but Supreme God is Kåñëa. Éçvaraù paramaù kåñëaù [Bs. 5.1]. That is the verdict of Lord Brahmä. Even Brahmä, he is also worshiping the Supreme God. Tene brahma hådä ädi-kavaye muhyanti yatra sürayaù. Janmädy asya yataù anvayäd itarataç ca artheñu abhijïaù svaräö [SB 1.1.1]. So God is svaräö. He is not dependent on any other controller. That is God. We are god, that's all right, but we are controlled even by the material nature, what to speak of other things. So we are not independent. Independent God is Kåñëa. Svaräö. He is described as svaräö. Svaräö means independent. He is not controlled by anyone. That is real God. And we may be god but imitation god or small god. But the great... "God is great." That "great" God is Kåñëa. So Prahläda Mahäräja says that kaumära. The boys... He was taking the opportunity of teaching his class friend. He was five years old boy and his father was a great demon, Hiraëyakaçipu: "Don't talk of God." So in this way he was in a very precarious condition. Still, because he was a Vaiñëava he was taking the opportunity of preaching Kåñëa consciousness. Preaching Kåñëa consciousness. So he was asking... The boys were very eager to play and he said, "No, no, no, my dear friends, don't play. Let us discuss something about bhägavata-dharma." Therefore he says that kaumära äcaret präjïaù: "Don't think that in the old age we shall discuss about Kåñëa consciousness. Immediately, in this age," kaumära a..., "if you are really intelligent." Why? Is there any guarantee that you become old man? You can die at any moment. So take this opportunity. Until the next death comes you take this opportunity in the matter of Kåñëa consciousness. That is Prahläda Mahäräja's instruction. There is no guarantee. Why you are thinking that way, that now you are five years old; you will live for five hundred years? No. There is no guarantee. At any moment you can die. Durlabhaà mänuñaà janma. This body, human form of body, is obtained after many, many millions of years through evolutionary process. Jalajä nava-lakñäëi sthävarä lakña-viàçati, 8,400,000 species of life we had to come through. Then we have got this body, human form of life, and civilized. Civilized, according to our Vedic conception, a civilized means ärya, ärya. When Arjuna was declining to fight, Kåñëa condemned him, anärya-juñöam: "You are just like..., speaking like an anärya, not an ärya. It is your duty. You must do it." Anärya-juñöam akértià karam arjuna. "You'll be defied by others. Don't do it." So an ärya... Aryan means who accepts this varëäçrama-dharma, four varëas, four äçrama. Varnäçramäcäravatä puruñeëa paraù pumän viñëur ärädhyate [Cc. Madhya 8.58]. The real aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead, Viñëu. So this is the process. If we execute this varëäçrama-dharma rightly, then we gradually make progress towards spiritual realization. It is so arranged in that way, brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya, çüdra, not by birth but by qualification. Cätur-varëyaà mayä såñöam [Bg. 4.13]. If these qualifications are found anywhere else, you should accept that. Even... That is explained by Närada, that yasya hi yal-lakñanaà proktaà varëabhivyaïjakam. Just like in the court, there is no such race or caste as lawyers. Anyone who knows law, he is accepted a lawyer. Similarly, the quality of brähmaëa is stated in the Bhagavad-gétä, çamo dama titikña satyaà çaucam ärjavam, jïänaà-vijïänam ästikyaà brahma-karma svabhäva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. So you can train anyone. Just like you can train anyone as lawyer, you can train anyone as an engineer or medical practitioner, similarly, you can train anyone as brähmaëa. That is wanted. That is wanted. So our Kåñëa consciousness movement is like that. We are trying to train some men as real brähmaëa because brähmaëa is the head, is the brain of the society. If the society has no brain, it is in chaotic condition. Brahma-jänäti iti brähmaëaù. Janmanä jäyate çüdraù saàskäräd bhaved dvijaù. So some section of the people must know what is Brahman, what is God, and they should preach all over the world. That is the greatest necessity at the present moment. So our Kåñëa consciousness movement is trying to do that although we are captivating or attracting some younger section, especially in Western countries. But Prahläda Mahäräja recommends that kaumära äcaret präjïo dharmän bhägavatän [SB 7.6.1]. Training should start immediately from the childhood. So we are opening one Gurukula in Våndävana to train brahmacäré. First of all brahmacäré. The society, the students should be brahmacäré. Brahmacäré gurukule vasan dänto guror hitam. Everything is there. Now we have to introduce these things. Otherwise the human society is already fallen, and it will fall down more and more, and it will be hellish condition, and so only hope is this Kåñëa consciousness. So I request you all to take this movement very seriously and try to help us. Thank you very much. Hare Kåñëa. (applause) [break] Any question? Acyutänanda: Kindly remain seated. Kindly remain seated. We will have some moments for questions and answers which will be followed by our cinema. [break] Prabhupäda: So far our philosophy is concerned, we want to be free from sinful activities because in the Bhagavad-gétä it is said, yeñäm anta-gataà päpaà janänäà puëya-karmaëäm te dvanda-moha-nirmuktä bhajante mäà dåòha-vratäù We are trying our best to become a perfect devotee of Kåñëa. So to become a perfect devotee means he must be sinless. If one is sinful he cannot become perfect devotee. So according to çästra, this animal-killing is sinful. Striya-sünä-päna-dyütä yatra päpaç catur-vidhä [SB 1.17.38]. These four kinds of sinful activities, namely illicit sex, striya... That is also... In our Vedic culture this is common morality. Cäëakya Paëòita even says that mätåvat para-däreñu. Anyone, any other woman, the wife of other gentleman, she should be considered as mother. This is civilization. So what to speak of illicit sex? But people are degrading. That is another thing. But this is our standard of civilization. Even a great politician, he says who is paëòita? Who is learned? mätåvat para-däresu para-dravyeñu loñöravat ätmavat sarva-bhüteñu yaù paçyati sa paëòitaù He doesn't say one has to take degrees. By behavior one should be understood. So these four principles, namely illicit sex, animal killing, and intoxication... Yes. So these are sinful activities and our position is how to become sinless. Therefore we do not recommend animal killing. That is not possible. Acyutänanda: Another question. (break—repeating question) This is a world of çakti or energy. There is a worldwide rise in prices of energy resources, like oil, coal, gas, and electricity. This means that there is a depletion of these energy resources. Naturally, there will be worldwide destruction of mankind and other living beings and materials in the near future. What are your views? Prabhupäda: So yes, these material things, they are energies. That is described in the Bhagavad-gétä. Bhümir äpo 'nalo väyuù khaà mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnä me prakåtir añöadhä [Bg. 7.4]. The petrol is also another form of Kåñëa's energy. Parasya çaktir vividhaiva çrüyate [Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport]. Any energy. There are many millions of energies. Na tasya käryaà käraëaà ca vidyate. Kåñëa has nothing to do because everything is being done by His energy. Although He is the ultimate source of everything, but He is doing everything by His energy. Parasya çaktir vividhaiva çrüyate svabhäviké jïäna-bala-kriyä ca. And it appears that it is being automatically done. Not. It is not automatically done. It is done by Kåñëa's energy. So this material energy is also Kåñëa's energy. It is not a different energy. Kåñëa says, bhümir äpo 'nalo väyuù. Now, this petrol is liquid thing, so äpa. It is a kind of liquid thing, äpa, so it is Kåñëa's energies. So our Vaiñëava philosophy is that Kåñëa's energies should be utilized for Kåñëa. This is Kåñëa consciousness. So everything can be utilized for service of Kåñëa. So when you use this petrol for Kåñëa's, spreading Kåñëa consciousness, if we can use one thousand or one hundred thousand motor cars using petrol for spreading Kåñëa consciousness, that is the proper utilization of petrol. (applause) Acyutänanda: (repeating lady's question) Kåñëa says to perform your sva-dharma, so how does one know what is his sva-dharma? Am I correct? Prabhupäda: That is sva-dharma. When Kåñëa says, "You surrender unto Me," that is your sva-dharma. Because you are part and parcel of Kåñëa, your business is to serve Kåñëa. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, so I say, "Finger, please come here." He immediately comes. This is the normal condition of the finger. Similarly, if you are really healthy, in normal condition, then you must be ready to serve Kåñëa. That is your sva-dharma. If the finger cannot come immediately on my order on my head, that means it is not in normal condition; it is in diseased condition. (applause) Similarly, when you cannot serve Kåñëa, that is your diseased condition. (laughter-applause) Indian man: ...many incarnations including Kåñëa. So Kåñëa gave Bhagavad-gétä. That doesn't means that the author has not given all the gods, whether including Kåñëa... [break] Acyutänanda: ...nations, so... Prabhupäda: So that I have already explained, that incarnation—whose incarnation? The question will be: whose incarnation? Indian man: God. God. Prabhupäda: God's. So that God is Kåñëa. You do not know that. Now learn it. Guest: Is not Räma a God? Prabhupäda: Yes. Incarnation means somebody's incarnation. So who is that somebody? That is Kåñëa. That's all. If you do not know it, you understand now. Acyutänanda: One more question, last question. Is it necessary that a person should pass through the three äçramas, brahmacäré, gåhastha, vänaprastha, before coming to sannyäsa? Prabhupäda: That is the normal rules and regulation, that especially brähmaëa, he must go through the four äçramas, first of all become brahmacäré, then gåhastha, then vänaprastha, then take sannyäsa. This is for the brähmaëas. And for the kñatriyas, brahmacäré, gåhastha, and vänaprastha. And for the vaiçyas, brahmacäré, gåhastha. And for the çüdras, only gåhastha. This is the process. This is normal process. But either one is brähmaëa or kñatriya or vai\ zya and çüdra, if he takes to Kåñëa consciousness he becomes above these rules and regulations. (applause) Yes. mäà cävyabhicäriëi bhakti-yogena yaù sevate sa guëän samatétyaitän brahma-bhüyäya kalpate [Bg. 14.26] So this Kåñëa consciousness movement is that it is giving immediate lift to everyone to come to the transcendental platform, brahma-bhüyäya kalpate. But general state is varëäçrama-dharma. Therefore Caitanya Mahäprabhu, when he was discussing with Rämänanda Räya, he first of all said, "What is the aim of life?" Caitanya Mahäprabhu (was) asking. So Rämaëanda Raya replied that "First of all to begin this varëäçrama dharma." So Caitanya Mahäprabhu said, eho bähya, äge kaha ära: "Yes, this is all right. But this is external. If you know something better, please tell me." So in this way, step by step, Caitanya Mahäprabhu... This varëa, äçrama, dharma, karma-tyäga, karma-sannyäsa, and karma-miçra-bhakti, jïäna-miçra-bhakti—everything was described by Rämänanda Räya, and Caitanya Mahäprabhu not rejected. He said, "It is all right, but if you know something better..." Then at last, when Rämänanda said... (aside:) Stop it. When Rämaëanda said that, quoting one verse from Çrémad-Bhagavatam, sthäne sthitäù çruti-gatäà tanu-väì-manobhiù, that it doesn't matter what you are. You remain in your post. Sthäne sthitäù çruti-gatäm. Through the oral reception if you hear about Kåñëa, then you become perfect. That is the statement. So this is required at the present moment, that you remain whatever you are, either brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya, çüdra, Englishman, Indian. It doesn't matter. You try to understand Kåñëa. That's all. If you do that, then everything will be perfect. And that can be very easily done by chanting Hare Kåñëa mantra. Therefore Caitanya Mahäprabhu has given this mantra—it is from çästra-harer näma harer näma harer nämaiva kevalam, kalau nästy eva nästy eva [Cc. Ädi 17.21]. In this age, in Kali-yuga, it is very difficult to bring back the fallen population again to the standard of brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya. It is practically lost now. The best thing is that all of them combine together, brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya, çüdra, or even less than çüdra, kiräta-hüëändhra-pulinda-pulkaçä [SB 2.4.18]. Take to this process of chanting and hearing of the Lord's name. Everything will be all right. [break] ...entities, we have no such distinction. It is confirmed by Caitanya Mahäprabhu when he was discussing with Rämänanda Räya. He was a governor of this Madras province under the regime of Mahäräja Pratäparudra of Orissa. And he was politician but he was a very learned scholar in Kåñëa science. Therefore Caitanya Mahäprabhu was talking with him. So because he was a çüdra by birth and Caitanya Mahäprabhu was not only very exalted position, brähmaëa and sannyäsé... So Caitanya Mahäprabhu was questioning and he was answering, so he felt little hesitation, that "Sir, You are so exalted. I am a gåhastha and a politican, and how can I..." Immediately Caitanya Mahäprabhu encouraged him, "No, no, no, don't hesitate." kibä çüdra kibä vipra nyäsé kene naya ye kåñëa-tattva-vettä sei 'guru' haya He said, "Don't hesitate. It doesn't matter whether he is a gåhastha or sannyäsé or brähmaëa or çüdra. If he knows Kåñëa, he is guru." He is guru. That is wanted. We are teaching that Kåñëa consciousness. If one man becomes Kåñëa conscious or knows... And Kåñëa also says, janma karma ca me divyaà yo jänäti.. [Bg. 4.9].. [break] "Anyone who knows..." (end)

Srila Prabhupada’s remarks on Chennai
I am very glad to learn that there is good chance of presenting and preaching our cult in South India… Madras is a good field because these people understand English very easily. So you will have very good chance for preaching in English.-Letter to Madhudvisa, 15 February, 1971
It may be that the Governor of Madras will invite me as his guest. If this happens I will come to Madras. So far the time being you may remain in Madras making members, and by my next letter I shall let you know definitely whether I am coming. If I come you can arrange lectures in all the prominent halls and all over the city you can advertise "A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada speaks.'' Letter to Giriraja, Bombay, 3 January, 1972
Yes, you can go to Madras and South India. In Madras we wanted to start a center and it was almost settled that the Chief Justice would give us a place. So actually, if it is possible to open a center in Madras that would be very nice. Letter to Gargamuni, Honolulu, 11 May, 1972
Prabhupäda: Yes. Janmäñöamé, Kåñëa's birthday, is observed by every Indian still, although artificially they are being checked not to take to Kåñëa. Kåñëa is presented by government in so many bad way. You see? In government there is a paper. It is called "Indian Culture," something. In that paper Kåñëa is depicted as a bil boy. (?)
Guest (3): What?
Prabhupäda: Bil boy means just like black, Negro. And He is worshiped. Such a rascal. Kåñëa is worshiped, and for Kåñëa worship so many Vedic literature, and government is presenting Him as bil boy. Just see what kind of government we have got.
Guest (2): Is that right? It is surprise to me.
Prabhupäda: Yes. You'll find they have got paper, "Indian Culture," or... Yes. One Mr. Ananda, he has written that nonsense article.
Guest (3): Of course, I have seen before 1963, before I came to this country.
Prabhupäda: So government is presenting Kåñëa like that. Dr. Radhakrishnan has spoken like that. Yes. What he has spoken?
Çyämasundara: Kåñëa was an aboriginal chief, tribal chief.
Prabhupäda: Such poor fund of knowledge, he is advertised as great scholar. He has no knowledge, and he writes Bhagavad-gétä. And now he is... For this offense he is now dead body. He cannot recognize any man, like this. He cannot say, "I am hungry." His daughter is always attending, giving some food, sitting idly. Just... What is the month?
Çyämasundara: In Madras? We were there in February.
Prabhupäda: Yes. February. Yes. I was there. I saw him. I saw Mr. Raja Gopala Acarya with him. So he is a dead body, living dead body.
Guest (2): Raja Gopala Acarya has also written a lot of books.
Prabhupäda: Yes. Not lot of. Some books he has written. So our request is to the Indians especially that we have got something to give to the world. Simply don't beg. Give something. Then you will be honored. You cannot compete with them by technology, by learning here. That is not possible. If you can give them something, that is Kåñëa consciousness.
Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan, September 11, 1972.
In Madras they say Veìkateçvara. Vaikuëöha. Kuëöha means anxiety. So God has no anxiety, and God's devotees have no anxiety. Therefore they are vaikuëöha. Here in the material world everyone has got anxiety. Therefore it is kuëöha, the world of kuëöha, anxieties. Everyone. Birds, beasts, human beings. There must be kuëöha. So God is Vaikuëöha. Room Conversation, July 11, 1973
Prabhupäda: Mostly they are vegetarian, strictly vegetarian. Actually, in Southern India, they maintain the Hindu culture. You'll find big high-court judges, they have got tilaka.
Ambassador: That's true.
Prabhupäda: Yes. Strictly in Rämänuja sampradäya, or Çaiva sampradäya they have got... Strictly taking bath and tilaka. In New Delhi, you'll find so many Madrasi gentlemen, big, big, high officers, they're strictly following Hindu principles.
Ambassador: You'll be surpri...
Prabhupäda: And still, if I am correct, in Madras, they, there, there is not many Mohammedans. The Mohammedan culture could not enter...
Ambassador: That's very true.
Prabhupäda: ...into Madras, Southern India. And you'll find also in our Caitanya Caritämåta... Now I am translating. When Caitanya Mahäprabhu went to Southern India, practically whole Southern India became Vaiñëava by His preaching.
Ambassador: It is a great period of...
Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes. And all the äcäryas, they came from South India. Çaìkaräcärya, Rämänujäcärya, Madhväcärya.
Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador, September 5, 1973, Stockholm
Prabhupäda: Best thing is that "Why your president, he did not write a single Hindi book? He has got so many. He is a famous philosopher. Indian religion, Indian philosophy, and Bhagavad-gétä. Then... He has written so many books but not a single in Hindi."
Indian man (1): Dr. Radhakrishnan belongs to South India.
Prabhupäda: Yes, he is from Madras.
Indian man (1): Yes, he doesn't know.
Prabhupäda: No, he does not know. Sometimes, before my taking sannyäsa, sometimes I used to see him. So once upon a time he asked me, "Swamiji, you are simply writing in English?" So I asked him, "What you are doing?" So he began to laugh. (end)
Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad
Guest (3): Daily we celebrate that Rädhä-kalyäëa.
Prabhupäda: Why you play Rädhä-kalyäëa? Preach Kåñëa's philosophy. Why do you go to Rädhä? First of all try to understand Kåñëa. Kåñëa in the Bhagavad-gétä has never said about Rädhä. That is very confidential. So why do you jump to Rädhä? Has Kåñëa said anything about Rädhäräëé in the Bhagavad-gétä?
Guest (3): Even in the Bhägavatam you don't see the...
Prabhupäda: No, Rädhä... There, Bhägavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhägavata there is no Rädhäräëé." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gétä, Kåñëa has never said about His Våndävana-lélä. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kåñëa. That is Bhagavad-gétä. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kåñëa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rädhäräëé? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kåñëa, and you want to understand Kåñëa's dealings with Rädhäräëé. That is very confidential.
Room Conversation April 12, 1975 Hyderabad
In Madras we have to construct a very gorgeous temple… Now immediately find out some land and begin the construction. Never mind what the cost will be. We are not concerned with the amount of money, but we want a very attractive temple. The money should come from the gentlemen of Madras. Letter to Sravanananda, Bhavabhuti, Mayapur, 4 February, 1976
The address in Madras is 50, Aspiran Gardens, 2nd Street, Kilpauk, Madras-10. If you live with our men following our program then you will also get opportunity to read all our books. Letter to Sri Subrahmanyan, Nellore, 3 January, 1976
We have just had a very successful program in Madras, with many prominent men, including the Chief Justice of Madras, taking an active part in this sankirtana movement. Letter to Satadhanya, Calcutta, 20 February, 1972
Our Madras programme has been fixed from 11th to 14th of this month, then on the 16th I shall be free to come to Vishakhapatnam along with a party of some of my American and foreign disciples. Letter to: Puri Maharaja, Bombay, 5 February, 1972
We have a nice center in Madras: 50, Aspiran Gardens, 2nd St., Kilpauk, Madras—600010. You can get all the books there. Letter to: Miss Nedungadi, Bombay, 19 March, 1975
Harikeça: There seems to be such an amazing repertoire of stories and analogies in the Bengali language, isn't there? So many.
Prabhupäda: In Bengal the, just like here, so many, black mixed up with white. In Bengal and Madras, so many Dravidian have ben mixed up with the Äryan. Therefore in Bengal and Madras you'll find many black.
Hari-çauri: Dravidian?
Prabhupäda: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Äryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Äryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya, they will be fair complexion. Çüdras, black. So if a brähmaëa becomes black, then he's not accepted as brähmaëa. Käla bahu (?). And if a çüdra becomes fair, then he's to be know that he's not pure çüdra. Although we do not take very, but, this brähmaëa, kñatriya, vaiçya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and çüdras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.
Conversation august 2, 1976, new mayapur – French farm
I am very pleased that you are such determined and enthusiastic devotee that almost single-handedly you are organizing Madras program and making many life-members also. Letter to giriraja, Bombay 28 december 1971